美國立法部門討論是否改採一中一台政策03

作者: dacapo (Dacapo) 看板: Gossiping
標題: Re: [爆卦] 3/14號美國重新審視台灣關係法的聽證會
時間: Sat Mar 29 05:14:03 2014

轉貼自 http://goo.gl/iesy1r
(補充一下 差不多第21頁開始進入詰問)

20140314美國國會臺灣關係法35週年聽證會影音及完整中英文逐字稿
Renee 何宇理 編譯

Kin Moy--國務院副助理國務卿負責東亞和太平洋事務的金莫伊
(Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs)

眾議院外交事務委員會 (House Foreign Affairs Committee)

Ed Royce, California, Chairman (113th) 埃德·羅伊斯，加州，主席
Chris Smith, New Jersey克里斯·史密斯，新澤西
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Florida, former Chairwoman (112th) 伊萊亞娜羅斯 - 萊赫蒂寧
，佛羅里達州，原董事長（第112號）
Steve Chabot, Ohio史蒂夫‧夏波，俄亥俄
Randy Weber, Texas 蘭迪·韋伯，德州共和黨
Scott Perry, Pennsylvania斯科特·佩里，賓夕法尼亞
Eliot Engel, New York, Ranking Member艾略特恩格爾，美國眾議員（民主黨）紐約，排
名會員
Brad Sherman, California布拉德·謝爾曼，美國加州
Eni Faleomavaega, American Samoa (Democrat) 埃尼法列歐馬瓦埃加，美屬薩摩亞（&#
8203;?民主黨）
Alan Lowenthal, California democrat 艾倫‧洛文塔爾，加州民主黨
Gerry Connolly, Virginia 格里康諾利，維吉尼亞州 (民主黨)
開場白 Opening Statements

羅伊斯 (加州，主席; 共和黨 ) (Mr. Royce)

Hearing on the promise of TRA. It’s been 35 years, for that period of time,
TRA has served as the legal framework governing the important relationship
between U.S. and Republic of China, Taiwan. Since the act came into force in
1979, there have been few other pieces of foreign policy legislation as
consequential as the TRA. Indeed, it is the steadfast support of the US
Congress that has helped Taiwan to be the way it is today: a thriving modern
society that strongly supports human rights, strongly supports rule of law, the
free market. The purpose of today's hearing is to consider whether the
Administration is doing enough to fulfill the promise of the TRA.

對台灣關係法所承諾的?證會。35年來，台灣關係法是美國和中華民國，台灣之間
的重要關係的法律框架。從該法案生效於1979年起，只有少數其他外交政策的法規，比台
灣關係法更有影響力。事實上，這是由於美國國會堅定的支持，使今天的台灣成為一個蓬
勃發展的現代社會，一個堅決支持人權，法治和自由的市場。今天聽證會的目的，是要考
慮政府是否做得足夠來履行台灣關係法的承諾。

America’s support for Taiwan is now more important than ever. It is vital that
we speak with one voice, when it comes to our support for Taiwan. Strengthening
the relationship with Taiwan is one of the Committee’s top legislative
priorities. In fact, I have led two bipartisan delegations to Taipei within the
last 13 months.

美國對台灣的支持，現在比以往任何時候都更加重要。最重要的是，我們對台灣的支持要
有一致性。加強與台灣的關係是此委員會立法的首要任務之一。事實上，過去13個月內，
我已經帶領了兩次兩黨代表團去台北。

Last year, our delegation trip included a visit to Taiwan’s WWII era
submarines based near Kaohsiung.  And in just last month, the committee
delegation of eight members of Congress traveled to Tainan to see first hand,
the fleet of fighter jets that serves as the backbone of the Taiwanese air
force. The fact that the first batch of these jets entered into service in 1965
is a stark reminder that Taiwan needs continuous support in order to maintain
deterrence across the Taiwan Strait.

去年，我們的代表團行程，包括參觀位於台灣高雄二戰時期的潛艇基地。而剛剛上個月，
美國國會的八名成員委員會代表團前往台南，親眼看到作為台灣空軍骨幹的戰鬥機機隊。
這批飛機首先起用時是1965年，這個事實明確的提醒我們，台灣需要持續的支持，以維持
台海的威懾。

On this front, I reluctantly submit that we are not doing enough to meet the
spirit of the TRA. We need to do more here in the U.S. And just as necessary is
the defense sales are to Taiwan, it is equally important that the US actively
support Taiwan’s efforts to maintain and expand its diplomatic space. When it
comes to matters of public safety or public health, the U.S. must do its utmost
to ensure that Taiwan has a seat at the table. For this reason, I authored the
legislation that was signed into law, to help Taiwan participate in the
International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) last year.

在這方面，我不情願地認為我們沒有做到足夠滿足台灣關係法的精神。我們美國應該可以
做更多。我們不只有必要銷售防禦性武器給台灣，我們應積極努力支持台灣，保持並擴大
台灣其外交空間也是一樣重要。當涉及到公眾安全或公眾健康的問題上，美國必須盡最大
的努力來確保台灣擁有一席之地。出於這個原因，我去年撰寫的簽署，現已成為法律，來
協助台灣參與國際民間航空組織。

Taiwan’s absence from ICAO prevents it from obtaining air safety information
in real time. The recent disappearance of the Malaysian aircraft highlights the
importance of cooperation in the aviation field. As a result of my legislation,
Taiwan has finally been able to have a seat in ICAO for the first time since
1976. Taiwan‘s participation in the Trans-Pacific Partnership Free Trade
Agreement is an important opportunity that we must not overlook.

台灣若缺席於國際民航組織，會阻止它獲得航空安全信息的實時性。最近馬來西亞飛機的
失?，顯示了航空領域合作的重要性。由於我所提上述的法律的結果，台灣終於在
1976年來，第一次在國際民航組織裡有一個席位。讓台灣參與的跨太平洋夥伴關係自由貿
易協定，是一個我們不可忽視的重要機會。

By working to include Taiwan in a high quality, multi-lateral trade agreement,
the US will be helping to preserve Taiwan’s ability to do business
internationally. The events unfolding in the Ukraine remind us of the strategic
weakness of relying on one major trading partner. I understand that the
government of Taiwan will soon announce its intention to seek membership in TPP
 As the Chairman of the committee, I strongly urge the Administration to
support Taiwan’s inclusion in TPP. America’s consumers and exporters would
benefit.

靠著合作，使台灣能夠參加高品質，多邊貿易的協議，美國將幫助台灣，維護它具有行使
國際業務的能力。烏克蘭的事件提醒我們，依靠一個主要貿易夥伴的戰略弱點。據我所知
，台灣政府將很快宣布它打算爭取加入TPP的意向。作為這個委員會的主席，我強烈要求美
國政府支持讓台灣納入TPP。美國的消費者和出口商將會受益。

The story of Taiwan is really a story about transformation. From the grinding
poverty of the post war era, to a military dictatorship, to a thriving multi-
party democracy, the investment that the American people made in Taiwan has
more than paid off. Today Taiwan is a beacon of democracy in a region of the
world that still yearns for freedom. The good people of Taiwan have also been a
part of American’s own success story, with many Taiwanese-Americans
participating as leaders of business, and government, and leaders of their own
community.

台灣的故事，實在是一個關於改造的故事。從極度貧困的戰後時代，到一個軍事獨裁政權
，到一個欣欣向榮的多黨民主，美國人民在台灣的投資已見成效。今天，台灣的民主是一
個仍然渴望成為自由世界地區的燈塔。良好的台灣人一直也是美國自己的成功故事: 許多
企業的領導者，政府機關和社區的領袖都是台灣裔的美國人。

As we acknowledge the 35th anniversary of the TRA, let us come together to
support and strengthen the US-Taiwan relationship. Our actions will directly
impact the future of Taiwan and our strategic and economic standing in the
critical Asia-Pacific region.

當我們紀念台灣關係法35週年，讓我們一起支持和加強美台關係，我們的動作將直接影響
台灣的未來，以及我們在亞太地區關鍵的的戰略和經濟地位。



恩格爾 (紐約; 民主黨) (Mr. Engel) (6:30)

 I am a big supporter of Taiwan, and have traveled there many times. The most
recently being with [Royce] last year. I want to agree with everything you just
said about Taiwan. Next month marks the 35 anniversary of the TRA, the Act
passed in 1979 is the cornerstone of the relationship between our two nations.
It’s been instrumental in maintaining peace and security across Taiwan Strait
and in East Asia, and serves as official basis of friendship and cooperation
between the US and Taiwan.

我是台灣的一大支持者，並去過那裡很多次，最近一次是去年。我很同意你剛才說的台灣
的一切。下個月是台灣關係法設法35週年，這個於1979年通過的法案就是我們兩國之間關
係的基石。它有助於維護海峽兩岸及東亞地區之和平與安全，並作為美國和台灣之間的友
誼與合作的官方依據。

I am proud to be a lead sponsor with you, Mr. Chairman, on H.R.494, which we
have affirmed the importance and relevance of TRA three decades after its
adoption. Taiwan is a flourishing, multi-party democracy of over 23 million
people with a vibrant free market economy. It is a leading trade partner of US,
along with bigger countries like Brazil and India.

我很自豪地能和你，主席先生，成為H.R.494的主要發起人之一。這是我們都認為台灣關係
法通過三十年之後的重要性和相關性。台灣是超過兩千三百萬人口，是蓬勃發展多黨民主
之國家，擁有一個充滿活力自由的市場經濟。它跟巴西和印度等大國，都是美國的主要貿
易夥伴。

Over the past 60 years, US-Taiwan relationship has undergone dramatic changes.
Taiwan’s development into a robust and lively democracy underpins the strong
US-Taiwan friendship we enjoy today. Our relationship with Taiwan was initially
defined by a shared strategic purpose of stopping the spread of communism in
Asia. At the end of the Cold War, Taiwan’s political evolution from
authoritarianism to one of the strongest democratic systems in Asia, has
transformed the US-Taiwan relationship from one based solely on shared interest
to one based on shared values.

在過去的60年中，美台關係已經發生了巨大的變化。台灣發展成為一個強大和生動的民主
，並鞏固我們今天所享有的美台友誼。我們與台灣的關係，最初是為了阻止共產主義在亞
洲蔓延的一個共同的戰略目標。在冷戰結束後，台灣從獨裁主義演變到亞洲最強的民主制
度，改變了從一個完全基於共同利益的美台關係到一個基於共同價值觀的關係。

One of the main obligations of the US under the TRA is to make available to
Taiwan defensive arms so that Taiwan is able to maintain sufficient self-
defense capabilities. Despite the improvement on the political and economic
ties between Taiwan and mainland China, Beijing’s military buildup opposite
Taiwan is continuing and the balance of cross-strait military forces continue
to shift toward China’s favor.

美國在台灣關係法下的主要義務之一，就是提供防禦性武器給台灣，讓台灣能夠維持足夠
的自衛能力。儘管台灣和中國大陸之間的政治和經濟關係有了改善，北京仍然進行反台的
軍事，而兩岸的軍力平衡繼續轉利於中國。

I encourage the Administration to work closely with the Congress in meeting our
obligations under the TRA, and to provide Taiwan with defensive weapons it
requires. In that light, I am very concerned about the decision of the US Air
Force not to fund the so called CAPES program (Combat Avionics Programmed
Extension Suite) in next year’s budget that would have upgraded the avionics
system of the F16 fighter jets including of about 150 of Taiwan’s F16s. The
Taiwan Defense Ministry now faces the tough decision of how to move forward
about the upgrade of its fighters at a reasonable cost, an upgrade that it
desperately needs.

我鼓勵美國政府與國會密切合作，以滿足台灣關係法的義務，且提供台灣需要的防禦性武
器。鑑於這個情況，我對美國空軍不在明年的預算中 (所謂的短斗篷程序) 將已升級的F16
戰鬥機，包括關於台灣150架的F16航電系統提供資金的這項決定甚為很擔心。台灣國防部
現在面臨著艱難的決定—要如何進行它迫切的需要，以合理的成本，將其戰機的升級。

I hope our witness will be able to shed some light on this issue, and on our
way forward for Taiwan and US. Taiwan’s political, economic and social
transformation over the last 60 years has demonstrated that a state can be
modern, democratic, and thoroughly Chinese. Taiwan’s example is an inspiration
for other countries in Asia and throughout the world that linger under the
control of one person or one party. The fact that Taiwan has now held five
direct presidential elections is a clear sign of political maturity of the
Taiwanese people and frankly a signal to Beijing that any change in relations
between China and Taiwan cannot be imposed by the mainland.

我希望我們的見證能夠提供在這個問題上的一些線索，並使台灣及美國一同向前進。台灣
過去60多年的政治、經濟、和社會轉型，已經證明了一個徹底中國化的國家，可以是現代
化及民主化的。台灣的例子可以用來啟發亞洲及世界其他被一個人或一個政黨控制下的國
家。到目前，台灣已經直選總統五次。這個事實明確的證明台灣有成熟的政治，也是給北
京的一個明確的的?息：中國大陸和台灣之間關係的任何變化，不能由中國來決定
。

For many years I have been a staunch supporter of the people of Taiwan and I
will continue to lead efforts here in Congress to demonstrate continued US
support for Taiwan. I think it is a moral obligation for the US to defend
Taiwan and to be in support of and stand with Taiwan.

多年來，我一直是台灣人民的堅定支持者，我將繼續在美國國會努力，展現美國對台灣的
繼續支持。我認為保衛台灣，並支持和站在台灣的立場，是美國應有的道德義務。

夏波 (俄亥; 共和黨) (Mr. Chabot) (10:50)

I was pleased to join you in traveling to Taiwan a couple of weeks ago, and I
think we had a productive trip and certainly in meeting with several of the top
officials, especially President Ma. I know my colleague and I were very happy
with our warm reception and the many courtesies…

我很高興和你一起在幾個星期前前往台灣，我認為我們的訪問是很有收穫，尤其是會晤了
一些高級官員和馬總統。我知道我的同事和我都非常喜歡他們給我們的熱情接待...

As one of the original founding co-chairs of the Congressional Taiwan Caucus, I
am, of course, a strong supporter of a strong US-Taiwan alliance. Taiwan is a
democracy, is a loyal friend and ally, and it deserves to be treated as such by
the US Government. As we commemorate the 35th anniversary of TRA this year, it
’s only appropriate that we strive to move even closer to the policy
objectives set out in that landmark piece of legislation, chief among which, is
the principle that our diplomatic relationship with the People’s Republic of
China is premised on the expectation that the future of Taiwan would be
determined by peaceful means.

我是原來創始美國國會台灣小組的共同主席之一，當然，我也是一個美台同盟的堅定支持
者。台灣是一個民主社會，是一個忠實的朋友和盟友，值得美國政府如此對待。當我們紀
念台灣關係法35週年，我們努力追求這具有指標性法律的政策目標是理所當然的；但其中
最主要的，是我們與中華人民共和國外交關係的原則，是期待將來會用和平的方式來決定
台灣的前途。

For over 30 decades, the TRA has served as the cornerstone of the US-Taiwan
relations. Along with President Reagan’s Six Assurances of 1979, the TRA has
played an indispensible role in the maintenance of peace and security in the
Eastern Asian Pacific region. Taiwan has come a long way since 1979. It has
conducted direct presidential elections, something that would have been
unthinkable back in 1979. These open and vigorously contested electoral
campaigns testified the values of pluralism, transparency and the rule of law,
shared by our two nations that deeply rooted in Taiwanese society.

在過去的30年來，台灣關係法是美台關係的基石。連同著雷根總統1979年的六項保證，台
灣關係法扮演了維持東亞太平洋地區和平與安全不可或缺的一個角色。自1979年以來，台
灣已經走過了漫長的道路。台灣的人民今已舉行了總統直選，這在1979年是無法想像之事
。這些開放和積極抗辯之競選，證實多元化、透明他和法治化是我們兩國所共享，已深深
紮根於台灣社會的價值觀。

At the same time, the threat of military aggression posed by the PRC to Taiwan
has grown exponentially over the years. When I first came to the Congress back
in 1995, China had a couple hundreds of missiles, and…there are now 1,600
short, mid-range ballistic missile [pointed at Taiwan]. …

與此同時，這多年來中國對台灣的軍事侵略的威脅已成倍增長。當我1995年第一次來到美
國國會時，中國有數百枚導彈對準著台灣，而......現在有1,600短，中程彈道導彈對準台
灣。

謝爾曼 (加州; 民主黨) (Mr. Sherman) (13:07)

…I remember Mr. Chabot leading us in our effort to seek the release on
humanitarian parole of the former president, Mr. Chen. I don’t think we can
conclude one way or the other about the judicial determination there. But
certainly given his poor health, given his service to the country, and given
the unifying effect this would have, I’d hoped that we would continue to press
for the humanitarian treatment and release of Mr. Chen. I think that it is
important that we provide Taiwan for the tools to defend itself. But Taiwan
needs to act as well; Taiwan spends less than $11 billion on its defense; less
than 1/5th per capita what we Americans do. And God blessed us with the Pacific
Oceans separating us from China; Taiwan only has the Taiwan Straits. On a
percentage of GDP basis, Taiwan only roughly spends half of what we do. So we
should be willing to sell them the tools, and they should be willing to spend
the money to buy these tools.

我記得夏波先生努力領導我們請求對前總統，陳先生的人道主義假釋釋放。我不認為我們
可以能得出任何有關司法認定的結論。但由於他身體不好，又由於他執政時勞務全國各地
，這一切共同的功效，我希望我們會繼續爭取對陳先生的人道待遇和釋放。[另一方面]，
我認為，我們提供給台灣自衛的工具是很重要的事。但台灣自己也需要檢討: 台灣每年只
動用約 $110億 美金在它的防禦；這是不到我們美國人人均的五分之一。上帝賜給我們太
平洋在中國和我們的中間，而台灣只有台灣海峽。對國內生產總值百分比為基準，台灣所
花的只有大約我們的一半。所以我們應該願意賣給他們這些工具，而他們應該願意花錢購
買這些工具。

I am also concerned with the reduction in the reserve requirements imposed on
the young people in Taiwan for military service. Finally, I disagree slightly
with the Chairman—I do want to see Taiwan involved in the trade negotiations
so long as America is out of those negotiations until those times when we
revamp our own trade policy which has given the largest trade deficit in the
history in the life of the planet.

我也關心對台灣年輕人後備軍人服兵役要求的降低。最後，雖然我我希望看到台灣參與貿
易談判，但我稍微不同意主席所說的，就是我認為當我們改造我們自己的貿易政策—歷年
來此星球上最大的貿易赤字—以後，美國自己已在這談判外時，台灣就可參與貿易談判。

莫伊 (國務院副助理國務卿負責東亞和太平洋事務) (Kin Moy) (15:52)

I am grateful to appear today to share news about the strength, substance and
success of our unofficial US-Taiwan relationship. I wish to thank you, Mr.
Chairman, for your leadership and strong interest in regional prosperity and
stability. Your commitment was evidenced by the large Congressional delegation
you led last month to Taiwan, Japan and South Korea. As you noted earlier in
your remarks, April 10th marks the 35th anniversary of the TRA. The resilience
and development of our robust relationship with Taiwan in the last 35 years has
been greatly fostered by the framework that the Congress has established in the
TRA. The US-Taiwan relations are grouted in history and our shared values, and
our common commitment to democracy and human rights. Maintaining and deepening
a strong relationship with Taiwan is an important part of the US’s rebalance
to the Asian-Pacific region.

我很感謝讓我今天能出席，來分享有關我們非官方的美台關係的實力，內容和成就的消息
。我要感謝您，主席先生，您的領導和您對[台灣]地區的繁榮與穩定的強烈興趣。您上個
月帶領了龐大的國會代表團去台灣、日本和韓國，證明了你的貢獻。正如您先前所指出的
，4月10日是台灣關係法創立35週年。我們所以能與台灣在過去35年有堅強及韌性的關係和
發展，是由於國會建立的台灣關係法架構下所促進成的。美台關係是鞏固在歷史和我們的
共同價值觀，還有我們對民主和人權的熱愛。保持和深化與台灣的密切關係是美國要重新
平衡化亞太地區的重要組成部分。

Through the American Institute in Taiwan, we work closely with Taiwan
authorities in a wide range of issues. In security, maintenance of peace across
the Taiwan Strait is crucial to stability and prosperity throughout the Asian-
Pacific region. The Obama Administration has notified Congress of over $12
billion worth of arms sales to Taiwan. This is a tangible sign of the
seriousness with which we regard Taiwan’s security. We encourage Taiwan to
adopt an innovator or innovative approaches to maintain a credible self-defense
capacity on an austere defense budget and in order to effectively deter
coercion or aggression.

透過美國在台協會，當面臨各種各樣的問題時，我們都與台灣當局緊密合作。在安全性方
面，維持海峽兩岸和平，使亞太地區穩定和繁榮是至關重要的。奧巴馬政府已通知國會，
我們對台的軍售超過120億 ($12 billion) 美元。這是我們對台灣安全的嚴肅態度的明確
信號。我們鼓勵台灣採取創新的方法，用一個簡樸的的國防預算，來保持可信的自我防禦
能力，並有效的遏止脅迫或侵略。

In a region experiencing tension, US appreciates Taiwan’s cooperation to
peacefully resolve disputes and share resources. In the area of economy and
economic engagement, in 2013, Taiwan was the 16th largest export market for US
goods, and the 8th largest export market for the US agricultural, fish, and
forestry products. In 2012, direct investment from Taiwan to US stood at
approximately at $7.9 billion. Our commercial relationship with the people of
Taiwan is vibrant and continues to grow. Last year, we were pleased to hold two
large delegations of Taiwan business leaders, first at the SelectUSA summit at
the end of October, and then again in mid November during a visit of Taiwan’s
CEOs, led by former Vice-President Vincent Siew. The Siew delegation brought
over $2 billion in new or ongoing Taiwan manufacturing investments in the US.

在這一個緊張的區域，美國讚賞台灣的合作，以和平方式解決爭端，並共享資源。2013年
，在經濟和經濟參與方面，台灣是全球第16大美國商品出口市場和第8大美國農業，漁業和
林業產品的出口市場。 2012年，來自台灣，直接到美國的投資約為79億 ($7.9 billion)
美元。我們與台灣人的商業關係是充滿活力，也持續增長。去年，我們兩次很高興舉辦的
台灣商業領袖大型代表團，首先十月底舉行<選擇美國>的高峰會議，然後又在11月中, 由
前副總統文森特蕭(蕭萬長)帶領的台灣的董事長團，來美訪問。這蕭代表團帶來了超過20
億 ($2 billion) 美元 新的或正在進行的投資。

In March, 2013, we restarted our engagement with Taiwan under our Trade and
Investment Framework Agreement, otherwise known as TIFA after a six year hiatus
 We have taken note of Taiwan’s intention of formulating a new economic
reform, demonstrated its willingness and capabilities in joining in regional
economic integration initiatives. The US will continue to encourage Taiwan, to
further liberalize its trade and investment measures.

經過六年的沉寂，在2013年的3月，我們重新開始進行我們與台灣的貿易與投資框架的協議
，另稱為TIFA。我們有注意到台灣要制定新的經濟改革的意圖，表明其在加盟區域經濟一
體化舉措的意願及能力。美國將繼續鼓勵台灣，進一步開放貿易和投資的措施。

International Space for Taiwan (19:10)

And as you noted, Mr. Chairman, the area of concern, also, to us is Taiwan’s
international space. As a top 20 world economy and a full member of WTO and
APEC, Taiwan plays a constructive role in the Asian Pacific region and
worldwide. Taiwan participates in about 60 international organizations, as well
as hundreds of international non-government organizations. US supports Taiwan’
s membership in international organizations that do not require statehood for
membership, and we support Taiwan’s meaningful participation in other
international organizations.

如您一樣，主席先生，我們也關注台灣的國際空間。作為一個前20名的世界經濟和世界貿
易組織和亞太經濟合作組織的正式成員，台灣在亞太地區及全球扮演建設性的角色。台灣
參與約60個國際組織，以及數百個國際非政府組織。美國支持台灣加入不需要?&#
8203;以國家身分參加的國際組織，我們支持台灣有意義的參與其他國際組織。

We are pleased that since 2009, Taiwan has participated, every year, in the
World Health Assembly (WHA) as an observer. We welcome Taiwan’s participation
at the International Civil Aviation Organization assembly in Montreal in 2013
as Guest of the ICAO council president. We support Taiwan’s expanded
participation in the future. We also encourage the UN, UN system agencies and
other international organizations to increase Taiwan participation in technical
or expert meetings.



我們很高興地看到，自2009年以來，台灣以觀察員的身份，每年參加世界衛生大會(WHA)。
我們歡迎台灣以理事會主席的訪客的名義參與2013年在蒙特利爾國際民用航空組織的大會
。我們支持台灣在未來擴大參與。我們並且鼓勵聯合國，聯合國系統各機構和其他國際組
織增加台灣參與有關技術或專家的會議。



Taiwan’s role as a responsible player in the global community has been well
demonstrated by its disaster relief efforts in the region. Taiwan was a quick
and generous donor of supplies and funding after the 2011 triple disaster in
Japan, and after last November’s Typhoon Haiyan of the Philippines. In short,
Taiwan [is] a stable and capable friend in the region, contributing to peace
and security. Finally, Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee, I thank you
again for the opportunity to appear today to highlight the strength and
durability of ties between the people of the United States and the people on
Taiwan, and to underscore substance of the successes of our cooperative efforts
within the context of unofficial relations. Taiwan has earned a respected place
in the world. Every society wishes dignity for itself, and people on Taiwan are
no exception. Thanks to the Taiwan Relations Act, people of goodwill in the
United States and on Taiwan have a firm foundation to further strengthen our
robust relationship (for the benefit of both our peoples).

作為一個負責任的團員，台灣在國際社會的角色，已經通過它在該地區的救災工作充分證
明。台灣在2011年當日本的三合一災難 [地震、海嘯、核電意外] 以及去年十一月菲律賓
的颱風海燕發生後，是物資和資金的快速和慷慨的捐助者。總之，台灣[是我們]在該地區
穩定和具有能力來促進和平與安全的朋友。最後，主席先生和委員會的成員，我再次感謝
你們讓我今天有機會出席，來強調美國人民與台灣人民之間關係的強度和耐久性，以及我
們因非官方關係架構內開展合作的成功結果，台灣贏得了在世界上受尊敬的地位。每個社
會都希望有本身的尊嚴，而台灣的人民也不例外。由於台灣關係法，在美國與台灣的善意
人士能有堅實的基礎，進一步加強我們強大的關係。

Questions and Answer Session

羅伊斯 (加州，主席; 共和黨 ) (Mr. Royce)

There is one thing that is disappointing to me. I often speak on the phone to
the Assistant Director Danny Russell, and I believe that he intended to be here
to testify...But time after time, and this is something that the Subcommittee
of the Asian-Pacific [Region] has talked to me about, for whatever reason, the
Administration pulls the witnesses. And I know it is not the lack of engagement
on the part of Danny Russell. We’ve talked to him repeatedly about the issues.
There is something about the relationship here with the State Department, when
Eliot Engel and I make these request, or when Subcommittee Chairman Chabot on
the Asian Pacific Subcommittee with Mr. Faleomavaega [make the request], for
some reason, the witnesses are always canceled.

有一件事實在令我人失望。我常和副理事長丹尼·羅素通電話，而我相信他有打算來這裡
作證。 但是一次又一次，而這一點亞太[地區]的小組委員會已經跟我提起，不知為什麼，
當局把證人移掉。我知道丹尼羅素是沒有參與這的。我們已經多次跟他提起有關這的問題
。不知是不是我們與國務院有什麼關係，但是當艾略特恩格爾和我提出這些要求，或當亞
太小組委員會會長夏博及法列歐馬瓦埃加先生提出要求時，出於某種原因，證人總是取消
。

What we want to talk about is Asian policies. As far as I know, Danny Russell
and I are in concurrence on a lot of these issues. But I don’t know about
further up in the Administration. So when I ask questions, for some reason, the
State Department // I am going to ask you a question now, for example, as I
mentioned in my opening statement, I strongly believe that Taiwan should be
included in the Trans Pacific Partnership. Does the US Government support
Taiwan’s inclusion in the TPP? That’s my question to you. Can you speak on
behalf of the Administration here?

我們要談談什麼是亞洲的政策。據我所知，丹尼·羅素和我是同意了很多這些問題。但我
不知道[羅素的]上司的看法是如何。所以，當我問問題，不知道是為了什麼原因，美國國
務院…[自己打斷]//我要問你一個問題，例如，正如我在開幕發言中提到的，我堅信台灣
應包括在TPP裡。美國政府可支持台灣納入TPP嗎？這是我給你的問題。你能代表政府說話
嗎？

莫伊

Thank you very much. I do appreciate your comments and I did have a chance to
speak to Danny Russell before coming up, and he wanted me to pass on his
regrets and appreciation for setting up this meeting. I can say that, from our
part, I don’t think that there’s anything preventing us from talking about
Taiwan issues here.

非常感謝。我很感謝您的意見，我確實在上來之前有和丹尼·羅素談過，他要我轉達他的
遺憾和讚賞你設立本次會議。我可以說，從我們的看法，我不認為有什麼事會使我們無法
在這裡談論台灣問題。

羅伊斯

It’s not just Taiwan. If Subcommittee Chairman Chabot was not equally
concerned and disappointed about it, has he not brought it up with the
Secretary of State here yesterday, I probably would not have brought it up. But
it’s just a pattern that, at this point, to us, the Asian Pacific region is
vitally important. We spend a lot of time on this issue, and we want the
Administration to be equally engaged on this. (So if you will carry that
information back.) But again, particularly given Taiwan’s almost singular
reliance on cross strait trade, does the US government support the inclusion of
Taiwan in the TPP?

這不只是台灣。如果不是小組委員會主席夏波同樣關注和失望，昨天在這裡跟國務卿提起
，我也許就不會提出來了。但它只是一種模式，在這一點上，對我們來說，亞洲太平洋地
區是非常重要的。我們花了很多時間在這個問題上，我們希望當局可以平等參與。…但同
樣的，特別是考慮到台灣對兩岸貿易的幾乎單一的依賴，美國政府可有支持台灣納入TPP嗎
?

莫伊

I will relay your concerns to my colleagues. It certainly isn’t a statement
about our commitment to a strong US-Taiwan unofficial relations. In fact, I
think we have a very strong record, and I think we have a very good story to
tell about that. With regard to your question about TPP, we welcome Taiwan’s
interest in it. We’ve heard from them very recently about their interest. We
also welcome (and I think that you met with President Ma Ing-Jeou on your
recent Congressional Delegation) [President Ma’s] steps to liberalize Taiwan’
s economy.

我會把您的問題傳給我的同事。這當然不是我們對一個堅強的美台非官方關係的承諾聲明
。事實上，我認為我們有一個非常堅強的記錄，我認為我們有一個很好的故事。至於你對
TPP的問題，我們歡迎台灣對TPP的興趣。我們最近已經從他們聽到他們對TPP的興趣。我們
也歡迎… [馬總統]放寬台灣經濟。

As you know, we are in ongoing negotiations on TPP, and I think what I can say
about this is that perhaps it is best if we move towards conclusions on those
negotiations before we discuss additional membership. But I think that we are
taking a step by step approach here. We have heard from Taiwan as well as
others about interests in TPP, and we certainly welcome that interest and we
are definitely willing to consider, along with some countries that approach us
most recently. We are willing to discuss about TPP in the future.

如你所知，我們和TPP的談判正在進行中，我想我可以說的是，也許我們最好先結束這些談
判，然後再討論其他成員的加入。但我認為，我們正用一步步的方法在進行。我們已經聽
到來自台灣以及其他對TPP有興趣的國家，我們當然歡迎他們。我們肯定願意考慮，連同那
些最近尋問我們的國家。我們願意對TPP的未來進行討論。

羅伊斯

One of the most important aspects of the TPP beyond the important trade-related
benefits, is that the grouping will help shape East Asia’s multi-lateral
political architecture by firmly anchoring nation states in a binding, legal
agreement. I want to make certain that Taiwan is part of that agreement. I
think it’s critical to Taiwan that it be included not only because it’s in
one of the world’s top 20 economies, but also because it is in our own
strategic interest, and adding Taiwan to TPP will allow it a greater access to
other trade agreements with Europe, for example. It’s going to serve as a
strong symbol of American support, and that is why I strongly support this.

在所有和TPP貿易有關的福利裡，其中一個最重要的方面，就是分組將幫助塑造東亞地區的
多邊政治架構，用約束力和法律協議來堅決的固定不同的國家。我想要確定台灣會是那協
議的一部分。我認為這對台灣是至關重要，不僅因為台灣擁有世界排名前20名的經濟，但
是還因為這是我們自己的戰略利益，而且台灣加入TPP將允許它參與其他貿易協定—例如歐
洲。這將成為擁有美國支持的一個強大的象徵，這就是為什麼我強烈支持這一點。

There is another issue that I want to talk about, and that is the issue about
the F16 upgrades. Does the US remain fully committed to Taiwan’s F16 upgrade
program?

還有就是我想談另一個問題，那就是關於F16的升級的問題。請問美國會繼續投入台灣的F
16的升級方案嗎？

莫伊

Back to TPP. What we would encourage Taiwan to do, as you know, TPP is a
consensus , tight membership. We would encourage Taiwan to raise its interest
in membership with all of the other parties as well. I know that Congressman
Engel also raised his concerns about the issue of the CAPE’s program. As I
understand, the US Air Force’s funding for the CAPE’s program will continue
through 2014. The US Air Force F-16 program office has determined the lack of
US Air Force participation beyond the fiscal year 2014 will not have a
significant impact on the Taiwan program. And that all funding can be covered
in Taiwan’s current letter of offer and acceptance. As a result, potential
cuts in the US Air Force’s funding program in the CAPE’s program will not
negatively impact Taiwan’s F16 retrofit program.

回到TPP。你也知道，TPP是一個協商一致的組織。我們將鼓勵台灣向其它會員國提出台灣
對加入TPP的興趣。我知道眾議員恩格爾也提出了他對CAPE的計劃問題的擔憂。據我所知，
美國空軍為CAPE計劃的資助將持續到2014年底。美國空軍F-16計劃的辦公室已經算出，就
算在2014財政年度後沒有美國空軍的參與，也不會對台灣的計劃有任何顯著的影響。而且
所有的資金，都可以包含在台灣現有的?要求提供以及接受的信件中。因此，美國空
軍對CAPE計劃的任何可能資助的削減，將不會產生不利台灣F16改造方案的影響。

We certainly are committed to the F16 retrofit program.  I think that we have
demonstrated that and we certainly had discussions with Taiwan.

我認為我們已經證明我們致力於F16的改造方案。，我們當然與台灣討論過了。

羅伊斯

It’s discouraging to me and others because many of us here, including myself,
wrote you and talked to the Administration about the sale of new F16s. So now
we are talking about retrofit. We want to make certain that this goes forward.
I would suggest the sale of the new F16s would be an easy solution to this. I
strongly support this.

我和這裡的其他人都有點氣餒。因為我們很多人，包括我自己，向你跟政府提起有關銷售
新的F16。而你卻在談論改造F16。我們想要確定這點會進展。我會建議出售新的F16將會是
一個簡單解決這個問題的方法。我強烈支持這樣做。

恩格爾

The Taiwan Defense Ministry now faces a tough decision on how to move forward
with the upgrade of its F16 fighters at a reasonable cost. This is an upgrade
that it desperately needs. Maybe they will continue it, maybe they won’t. I am
concerned about Taiwan being able to maintain their fleet of F16s, and
certainly, the decision that the USAF made not to fund the CAPES program was a
poor decision—it just makes no sense to me whatsoever. When it comes to Taiwan
, there is a sort of undercurrent that we feel over time. We bend over
backwards to try not to upset the sensitivity of the Beijing regime. And
frankly it irks me.

台灣國防部現在面臨著一個艱難的決定：要如何以合理的成本進行F16戰鬥機的升級。這個
升級是台灣迫切需要的。也許他們會繼續下去，也許他們不會。我很關心台灣要如何保持
他們F16的機隊。當然，美國空軍提出不給CAPE計劃資助的決定，是一個不宜的決策－我實
在不懂。當我們談涉到台灣時，好像有一種暗流隨著時間移動。我們使出渾身解數盡量不
要惹煩了北京政權的敏感度。坦率地說，對這我很厭煩。

Not that I don’t wish to have good relations with Beijing—we should—but not
at the expense of our relations with Taiwan, or not at the expense of our
friendship with Taiwan. So it really irritates me that we make a decision that
has an adverse impact on our friend Taiwan. Doesn’t seem to be for any good
policy purpose other than to placate Beijing.

並不是我不希望和北京有不好的關係—反而，我們應該和北京有好的關係，但是我們不應
該為了北京而犧牲我們與台灣的良好關係及友誼。所以，當我們做了對我們的台灣朋友帶
來不利影響的決定時，這真的惹惱我。這個政策似乎除了討好北京以外，並沒有其他任何
有利的目的。

莫伊

…I regret that I am not able to speak for my colleagues in the Air Force. I do
understand your concerns, and I will relay those to my colleagues. But what I
do want to do is to strongly emphasize that our improvement in the bilateral
relations with the PRC does not come at the expense of our relationship with
Taiwan. In fact, I think that our relationship with Taiwan, right now, is as
strong as it ever has been. We have often times emphasized that point, that we
have an interest in strengthening relations with Beijing, but absolutely not at
the expense of our very strong relationship with Taiwan and the people on
Taiwan.

..我很遺憾，我不能替我在空軍的同事發言。不過，我理解你的關切，也會把那些關切轉
達給他們。但我想要強調：我們與台灣的關係不會因我們與中國的雙邊關係的改善而付出
代價。事實上，我認為我們與台灣的關係是從來沒有比現在更強的了。我們常常強調這一
點：我們有興趣增強我們與北京的關係，但絕對不會因此而讓我們與台灣和台灣人民之間
，非常強固的關係付出代價。

恩格爾

I certainly hope that continues to be the case, because sometimes it appears
that it’s not really the case. I’ll take your word, but want you to duly note
that we here at this committee feel strongly about this. What steps is the
Administration taking to ensure that Taiwan is accorded in an appropriate level
of participation in the international organizations such as the WHO and ICAO? (
32:59)

我當然希望是這樣子，因為有時候好像不是真的如此。我相信你所說的，但是我要你正式
注意，我們本委員會強烈地感覺這一點。[請問]白宮政府採取了哪些措施，以確保台灣被
給予適當地參與權，可以參與國際組織，如世界衛生組織和國際民航組織？

莫伊

…As I said in my introductory remarks, it’s an area of primary importance to
us; it is a priority that the expertise from Taiwan is recognized. There is so
much professional expertise there, so much knowledge in Taiwan that it deserves
to be recognized in the international organizations. This is not just a matter
of knowledge, however; it is a matter of dignity too. And we take it very
seriously. So we do review different opportunities to expand. You have noted
ICAO and working together with a number of other countries. We have supported
not just Taiwan’s guest participation as it appears as a guest last year at
the Assembly, but more frequent interaction with ICAO, because there is a lot
of technical expertise they can bring to those types of meetings. (34:18)

.....正如我在開場白中說，這對我們是第一重要的。讓台灣的專業知識，被公認是一個
優先事項。他們有如此多的專業知識及學問，台灣值得被國際組織認可。這不只是一個關
於知識的問題；它也跟尊嚴的問題有關。並且我們對這點是非常認真的。所以我們檢討可
不可以為台灣擴大[專業名聲]的機會。你已經注意到國際民航組織，及和其他一些國家的
合作。我們不只有支持台灣以嘉賓的身份參與，像他們去年在[世界衛生]大會一樣，但也
支持與國際民航組織更頻繁的互動，因為他們把很多的技術專長可以帶到這類型的會議。

 But as you noted, the World Health Assembly, we also look at opportunities
working on climate change issues, various types of international organizations
we often consult because there are often times when there are issues where
Taiwan has a unique ability to revive (34:32) knowledge, recommendations,
imaginative ideas beyond just their technical expertise, and we want to take
advantage of that and we want to continue to do that. (34:52)

但正如你所指出，…我們也期待台灣可以有機會參與氣候變化問題的討論。我們經常請教
各國際組織，因為有很多問題台灣都有他們專門解決的一套，也有知識，建議，和想像力
等的想法，我們要利用這一點，並且我們希望繼續這樣做。

恩格爾

Is the Administration providing Taiwan the defensive weapons that it requires
as required by the TRA, are there defensive systems that Taiwan has requested
but we have decided not to provide, and if so, what are they? (35:14)

政府究竟有沒有按照台灣關係法提供台灣所要求的防禦性武器？ 有沒有什麼台灣已要求，
但我們已決定不提供給他們的防禦系統？如果有的話，它們是什麼？

莫伊 35:15

I am not aware of such systems. But we are in compliance with the TRA in making
available to Taiwan the defense articles and services necessary to enable
Taiwan to maintain sufficient self-defense capabilities. We will continue to be
in compliance with that. The US Government often review their defense
capabilities, and I think we have a very strong record in this Administration
of providing that.

我不知道這樣的系統。但我們是在遵守台灣關係法，提供給台灣必要的防禦物品和服務，
使台灣保持足夠的自衛能力。我們將繼續遵循這一點。美國政府經常檢討台灣的防守能力
，我認為我們本屆政府有一個非常強的提供給台灣的紀錄。

萊赫蒂寧 (佛羅里達州; 原董事長; Ms. Ros-Lehtinen) (36:11)

Relations between the US and Taiwan are at a critical juncture. I am concerned,
as all of us are, that China’s continued rise in aggression in the East and
South China Seas, and the feeble response by our State Department to North
Korea’s missile launches, which are clear violation of international sanctions
 The people of Taiwan have every reason to fear developments of the West
Pacific to worry about the future of their land and to question, both the
resolve and the commitment of the US. (How tragic). And as we approach the 35th
anniversary of this very important and essential TRA anniversary, we remember
that this crucial legislation forms the cornerstone of US-Taiwan relations. It
is the foundation of policy that has been and will be, and will remain
forevermore the anchor of peace and security of the West Pacific.

美國和台灣之間的關係正處在一個關鍵時刻。我所關注的，像我們這裡所有的人都一樣，
就是中國在東海和中國南海持續上升的侵略動作，還有我們國務院，對朝鮮發射導彈，明
顯違反國際制裁的微弱反應。台灣人民有充分的理由擔心西太平洋的發展和自己土地的未
來。他們也有充分的理由去質疑（如何悲慘啊）美國[對於保護台灣的決心和承諾。而當我
們接近這個非常重要和必要的台灣關係法之35週年，我們記得這個重要的法律構成美台關
係的基石。這是一個曾經和將會，並是將永遠保持西太平洋的和平和安全性的政策的基礎
。

But as we reflect on the promise of the TRA on this 35th anniversary, we must
also gage the fulfillment of its specific policies, and we examine the lack of
strategic vision in this part of the world and we talk about where we go from
here, when we, over here, watch China, again, increases its defense budget by
double digits, begin construction on a second aircraft carrier, establish air
defense identification zone in the East China Sea and continue its aggression
over the Senkaku Island. There is no better time to reaffirm, to clarify, and
to strengthen the relations with our democratic ally and our strongest friend,
Taiwan. But instead of recommitting to Taiwan, we continue to hear our State
Department speak in half-truths, invent a laundry list of items that hinders
our relations with Taiwan and our Pacific allies, and do everything it can to
not provoke China.

但是，當我們在這35週年反思台灣關係法的承諾，我們也必須測量此政策具體的實現。我
們研究缺乏在這個世界的角落的戰略眼光。我們討論未來要怎麼走，當我們從這裡看中國
再次地以兩位數來加倍他們的國防預算，開始興建第二艘航空母艦，在東中國海建立防空
識別區和繼續對尖閣島的侵略。沒有[比現在]更好的時間來重新申明，澄清，並加強與我
們的民主盟友和我們最堅強的朋友—台灣—的關係。可是，我們的國務院不但沒有再次 的
全心的投注給台灣，我們竟然聽到他們繼續地在說半真半假的話，編造一籮筐阻礙我們與
台灣和其他太平洋盟友關係的東西，並盡一切所能，不去招惹中國。

And that sadly seems to be our policy with Taiwan: don’t antagonize China.
Taiwan Policy Act introduced by my colleagues and Chairs of the Taiwan Caucus
and me, passed down to this committee last August, the bill aims to rectify
these problems by advancing the sale of essential defense articles and the new
sale of F16s is included in this bill. It encourages high level of visits
between the US and Taiwan officials; it promotes bilateral trade agreements.
What is the Administration’s policy on the TPA, and secondly, how does the
Administration plan to counterbalance China’s power, when we don’t even
commit to our democratic ally, Taiwan, and by extension, any of our regional
allies, and thirdly, what is the Administration going to do to develop Taiwan’
s economic bonds with the US—its independence, its strengthen our economic
bonds.  What is the State Department, the Obama Administration’s policy on
Taiwan—other than don’t make China mad?

而且可悲的是，這似乎是我們與台灣的政策：不與中國敵對。我、我的同事們、和國會的
台灣小組的主席所推出的台灣政策法案，去年八月傳遞到這個委員會。此法案旨在糾正這
些問題：促進銷售必不可式缺的國防物品，包括銷售新的F16；鼓勵美國和台灣的高層官員
的互訪；促進雙邊貿易協定。白宮當局對台灣政策法案的看法為何？其次，白宮當局計劃
要如何抗衡中國的力量，甚至當我們都不致力於我們的民主盟友，台灣，及我們在那區域
的其他盟友？第三，政府打算要如何發展台灣與美國經濟上的聯繫—其獨立性、鞏固經濟
聯繫。最後，國務院，奧巴馬政府對台的政策是什麼—除了不激怒中國之外？

莫伊40:00

I don’t think that our Taiwan policy is founded on the principle of “let’s
not make China mad”. In fact, I think that if you look at the record, we have
done an enormous amount to expand our relationships to strengthen it, in all
areas, not just the security aspects of it; the economics’ side. It’s also
the people to people side as well. As you may know, with the help of the others
, we granted Taiwan…(interrupted by Ros-Lehtinen)

我不認為我們對台政策是建立在“我們不要讓中國生氣”的原則。事實上，我認為，如果
你看我們的記錄，我們在所有領域裡已經做了許多可以以擴大及加強我們的關係—不只是
安全性方面的問題；經濟、人民對人民方面也一樣。正如你可能知道的，與其他人的幫助
下，我們給予台灣...（由羅斯 - 萊赫蒂寧打斷）

萊赫蒂寧 (40:40)

Have you read the Taiwan Policy Act we have filed? If not, I would like to give
that to you and have an Administration policy on it. How are we
counterbalancing China’s power and committing to Taiwan?

你有沒有看過我們提出的台灣政策法案？如果沒有，我想把它給你(們)，並請白宮當局把
有關它的政策給個交代。我們要如何制衡中國的力量，並致效於台灣？

莫伊

I think that, of course I am very pleased to take a look with my colleagues at
the legislation, but I think we have a very strong record of support for Taiwan
through our unofficial relations in accordance with the TRA. As I noted, the 35
th anniversary is a reason to celebrate; it’s a reason also to commemorate
just how we’ve come what we need to do in the future we can still refine and
enhance…(interrupted by Ros-Lehtinen)

我認為，當然我很高興與我立法的同事看看，但我認為，透過非官方關係，根據台灣關係
法，我們對台灣的支持有非常好的紀錄。正如我提到的，35週年是值得慶祝的理由。另一
個原因，是為了紀念我們所經過的，我們將來需要做的，還可以完善和加強......（由羅
斯 - 萊赫蒂寧打斷）

萊赫蒂寧

I don’t believe that the people of Taiwan share those sentiments. I don’t
think they see us as upholding the principles enshrined in the cornerstone of
our US’s foreign policy related to Taiwan, which is the TRA. It promises a lot
, and I think the people of Taiwan would think that we haven’t fulfilled those
missions. Do you think that we have?

我不相信台灣人民和你會有同感。我不認為他們會覺得我們有維持到台灣關係法—美國對
台灣的外交政策的基石—的原則。它承諾了很多，而我覺得台灣人會認為我們還沒有完成
這些任務。你認為我們有嗎？

莫伊 (42:02)

I do believe—I mean, I haven’t seen any recent polls—but I would imagine
that the people on Taiwan regard the US relationship as, if not the most
important relationship for Taiwan, it is got to be right up there. They are
good friends of ours; they think like we do. Their values we share, I would
think that they are very supportive of the things that we have done.

我相信，我的意思是，我還沒有看到任何最近的民調，但我想像，台灣人民把與美國的關
係視為，如果不是最重要的，好歹也在那裡。他們是我們的好朋友，他們想法跟我們一樣
。他們和我們共享一樣的價值觀。我認為他們都非常支持我們所做的事情。

萊赫蒂寧

Do you think that we need to do more? 你認為我們需要做的更多嗎？

莫伊

We are always looking for ways to strengthen the relations, just as we are
looking in the larger context in our rebalanced Asia. We want to strengthen our
relationships with our allies; we want to strengthen our relationships with...

我們一直都有在尋找各種方法來加強關係，就像我們有在尋找重新平衡亞洲的多方面的背
景。我們要加強我們與我們的盟國的關係，我們希望加強與…的關係...[被打斷]

萊赫蒂寧

New sales of F16s and higher technologies of planes for the needs of Taiwan?

那銷售台灣需要的新的F16和較高技術的飛機呢？

莫伊

Again, we have had a very strong record of providing defense articles to Taiwan
 再次，我們有非常好的紀錄提供防衛武器給台灣。

謝爾曼

One issue we brought up with President Ma was the incarceration of the former
President Chen. One of the red flags of a democracy that it isn’t working real
well is that the former president is in jail. That is true in just about any
country. What are we doing to seek either the humane treatment or the
humanitarian parole for the former President Chen?

我們與馬總統提出了的一個問題：有關前陳總統的監禁。幾乎在任何一個國家，一個運作
不甚的民主社會的跡象，就是當它的前總統是在監獄裡。我們有為了前陳總統尋求，無論
是人道的待遇，或是人道主義的假釋而做了什麼？

莫伊 (43:58)

As you know, the former president was convicted on corruption charges after his
2008 presidency, including the transfer of presidential office funds to private
Swiss bank accounts. We believe that his conviction was in a system that is
fair, impartial and transparent. Rule of law exists in Taiwan. In regard to
your specific question, certainly we have heard varying accounts of the status
of his health, and certainly we would want Taiwan to review his health
condition. I am not aware of any or I don’t have an update …

如你所知，前總統在2008年總統選舉後被指控裁定他貪污，包括總統府資金轉移到瑞士私
人銀行賬戶。我們相信，他的定罪的系統是公平、公正、和透明的；法治有存在在台灣。
關於你的具體問題，當然我們也聽到不同的有關他的健康狀況的報導。當然我們希望台灣
會審查他的健康狀況。我不知道有任何或最新的情況...[被打斷]

謝爾曼

Let me go on to the next question. Taiwan is spending only half as much of GDP
on defense as we are, I don’t mind going to my district and say, Let’s pay
taxes, but Taiwan is on the front lines. I am sure you’ve had discussions when
they say they can’t afford to spend anymore. We are all very concerned about
the maintenance of their F16 aircrafts. The US taxpayers may not be able to pay
for that. Taiwan has only a 5% value added tax. Has the US pushed Taiwan not
just to spend more on its defense, but if they say they don’t have the money
to make its value added tax or other taxes at the rate of our European allies
who we also push to pay for their own defense?

讓我到下一個問題。在防守上，用生產總值來比，台灣只花了等於我們所花的一半。我不
介意去我的選區說，讓我們繳稅，但台灣是站在第一線上。我相信你已經有討論過，他們
說，他們花不起了。我們都非常關心他們對F16飛機的維護。美國的納稅人可能無法為他們
付錢。台灣只有5％的加值稅，美國可有督促台灣不只是增加防禦的資金? 但如果他們說他
們沒有足夠的資金，那我們應該要求他們使其提高加值稅，或其他稅，高到跟我們歐洲的
盟友防禦的資金一樣—如同我們也督促我們歐洲的盟友一般。

莫伊 (45:55)

On the issue of spending more, we have encouraged Taiwan to fulfill what it has
said in the past that it will spend up to 3% of their GDP on defense.

花費的問題，我們都鼓勵台灣去完成它過去曾表示，將花費提高到達其GDP的3％的防禦。

謝爾曼

Why do we accept 3% for them and including veteran benefits, 5% for us?

為什麼他們只要3％，而且這還包括退伍軍人的福利，然而我們則要5％呢？

莫伊

This is what President Ma has stated in the past, and so we do hope that  [
interrupted]

這是馬總統在過去表示過的，所以我們也希望[被對方打斷]


謝爾曼

I think the best way to get the 3% is to start demanding 6%, or insisting that
a good ally that seeks our support for a country that faces possible
eradication or forced incorporation ought to be doing well more than the US per
capita, and I think if we start to talk about the 6% then we may someday see 3
or 4% at the minimum. Finally, what are we doing to push Taiwan to adopt better
laws against the peer to peer websites for piracy movies?

我想，要他們達到3％最好的辦法就是先要求6％，或堅持的說，一個尋求我們的支持的一
個很好的盟友，可能面臨被消滅或被迫併吞，依人均收入來看，應該比美國人花更多在國
防上。我想，如果我們開始談論6％，那麼我們可能有一天會看到3、或4％的最低水準。最
後，我們可有督促台灣去採取更好的法律來阻止對等網路對電影的盜版嗎？


莫伊47:07

I think that this is part of our economic engagement with Taiwan. What we’ve
had said in the past, and this is in terms of all our dialogues, we would like
to have a little bit more confidence, especially in areas such as intellectual
property protection…[interrupted]

我認為這是我們與台灣的的經濟交往的一部分。我們過去在我們所有的對話方面已經說過
，我們希望能有一點點多的信心，特別是在諸如知識產權保護領域...[被對方打斷]

謝爾曼

But are we specifically focusing on peer-to-peer websites, the lack of
legislation in that area, and the pirating of our movies?

但是，我們可有特別注重對等網站，台灣缺少這方面的立法，以及盜版我們的電影？

莫伊

I am not aware of…(both speaking at once)…Intellectual property protection
definitely is a priority of ours…

我不知道......（兩人同時說）......知識產權保護絕對是我們的首要任務......

謝爾曼

A general statement about intellectual property protection won’t have the
specific effect or may have no effect, compared to the specificity, and I hope
that you will specifically focus their attention on the peer-to-peer website
piracy of our movies. Finally, what steps is the Administration taking to make
sure that Taiwan has appropriate participation in international organizations,
such as WHO, ICAO, and the climate control (UNFCCC—UN Framework Convention on
Climate Change)?

關於知識產權保護，若不講清潔，隨便一句講一講將不會有什麼特定的效果，或者可能什
麼效果都沒有。我希望你們會特別將他們的注意力集中在利用對等網站來盜版我們的電影
的行為。最後，白宮當局有採取什麼步驟，來確保台灣在國際組織，如世界衛生組織、國
際民航組織氣候控制（氣候公約，聯合國氣候變化框架公約氣候變化）等的適當參與？

莫伊

As I noted earlier, international space is a priority of ours, and we are
looking for opportunities for Taiwan experts and professionals to shine in
their fields in international flora. We will continue to do that. That really
does help those organizations; it really helps the global community when they
participate.

正如我前面提到的，[台灣的]國際空間是我們的優先任務。我們正在尋找給台灣的專家和
專業人士在他們的領域上發揮表現在國際的舞台的機會。我們將會繼續這樣做。這確實可
以幫助這些組織：當台灣參與時，他們確實有助於國際社會。

史密斯 (新澤西; 共和黨) (Mr. Smith) (49:04)

Over the past few years and across two different administrations, we have
witnessed an alarming number of gushing statements by senior American officials
on the US’s One-China Policy. Last year, PLA (People’s Liberation Army)’s
General Chen Bingde, during a visit to Washington, claimed that the then
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said that the US policy maintains that “
there is only one China in the world”, and that “Taiwan is part of China.”
Not long after that, Admiral Mullen shared the view that “peaceful unification
of China”.

在過去的幾年中，並在兩個不同的政府當局，我們有見證到許多美國高級官員說出有關美
國的一個中國政策驚人的說詞。去年，中國人民解放軍的陳炳德上將，訪問華盛頓期時，
聲稱美國當時的國務卿希拉蕊·克林頓說，美國的政策主張“全世界只有一個中國”，和
“台灣是中國的一部分。”此後不久，海軍上將穆倫說，“中國的和平統一”。

Let me ask you, the People’s Republic of China, as we all know, is a
dictatorship; it is a gulag state and would we have wished that reunification
of West Germany into East Germany when Honecker was ruling as a cruel dictator
in East Germany? I think not. So I think those kinds of statements are not
helpful. I do believe, and I want to ask your view on this, as to whether the
time has come for the Cold War relic, and I know all about the Shanghai
Communique, I’ve read it, and I’ve actually had an argument with Li Peng in
China, when we brought up the human rights [issues], and he said that the
Shanghai Communique said nothing about the human rights at all. That was true,
but he used it as a dodge and as a way of precluding any discussion on human
rights. But shouldn’t we have a One-China, One-Taiwan policy?

讓我問你，中國人民共和國，大家都知道，是一個獨裁政權，它是一個古拉格狀態。那請
問，當昂納克(Honecker)統治東德時，我們會希望東德和西德統一嗎？我想不會。因此，
我認為這類的言語沒有什麼幫助。我相信，我想問您對這個的意見：美國有一中一台的政
策的時間是否已到了？我知道所有關於上海公報—它是冷戰之遺跡—我有讀過它，並且我
實際上已經和李鵬委員長在中國辯論有關人權的問題。他說，上海公報完全沒有提到人權
的問題。的確，這是事實；但他用它作為一個躲避和排除對有關人權問題的任何方式的討
論。

And secondly, if you could, the Taiwan Relations Act Section 2 points out that
the “enactment of this Act is necessary to help maintain the peace, security
and stability in the Western Pacific”. What are the consequences of the US if
Taiwan were to come under PRC control, and do we fully realize that such a
shift would have devastating implications for US’s long standing security
partners and allies of East Asia including Japan and South Korea?

其次，台灣關係法第2條指出：“要有助於維護西太平洋的和平、安全、與穩定，本法制定
是必要的。” 如果台灣受到中國的控制，美國會有什麼後果？以及，我們可有充分意識到
，這個轉變將會對美國長久以來存在的安全合作夥伴和東亞盟國，包括日本和韓國，有毀
滅性的影響？

莫伊 (51:08)

What I’d like to point to is most recently, as you may probably have seen in
the press that there has been more dialogue between the two sides of the Strait
recently, the head of the Mainland Affairs Council of Taiwan Wang Yu-Chi with
Zhang Zhe-Jun, head of the Taiwan Office. We have gone on record as saying that
we support that kind of warming of ties. And I think that one of the reasons
why there has been such discussions is that we have been so supportive of
Taiwan, giving them the confidence, so they can have this kinds of dialogue. So
I think we do have a very strong record of that. We do support the increased
dialogue between the two sides. In terms of consequences, I wouldn’t want to
get into any sort of hypothetical scenarios here. I don’t think that that is
something that we view as very likely right now.

我想指出的是，你可能已經在媒體上看到，最近海峽兩岸，在台灣陸委會的主任委員王郁
琦跟中國的國務院台灣事務辦公室主任張志軍之間出現了更多的對話。我們有記錄說，我
們支持那種和睦的關係。我認為，為何有這樣的討論的原因之一，是因為，我們一直對台
灣的支持，給了他們信心，使他們能夠有這種類型的對話。因此，我認為我們確實有一個
非常良好的記錄。我們支持加強雙方之間的對話。而你所提起，後果的方面，我不要在這
裡假設任何種類的情景。我想我們並不認為現在，這會是很有可能的事。

史密斯

What happens? We do have scenarios that we consider at the Pentagon and at the
State.

會怎麼樣？五角大廈和國務院也有假設不同的情景過。

莫伊

It’s not something that is sort of a normal feature of our discussions, these
types of hypotheticals. What I can say is that I heard your remarks about the
One-China Policy. But this is a policy that has endured through many
administrations and…I think that what we have done, and much of this has to do
with the TRA but it has given Taiwan a great deal of confidence over the last
years to increase the kind of intensity of discussions with the PRC, knowing
that the US is always in support is greatly comforting to the Taiwan side.

這類的假設不是我們通常用來討論的性質。我可以說的，是我有聽到說你對一中政策的言
論。但是，這是一個已經經歷了許多當局的一個政策，...而我認為，我們所做的，而且大
部分是因為台灣關係法，在過去幾年給了台灣一個很大的信心，強烈的增加與中國的討論
，知道美國始終是支持台灣的，就是給台灣方面極大的安慰。

史密斯

But frankly, some of our diplomats including our former Ambassador Bellocchi
has suggested that the ambiguity and the statements that may have made could
send the wrong signal to the PRC, particularly as they build up militarily in
and around or in proximity to Taiwan. And with the saber rattling we see
occurring in the South China Sea and an ever expansive foreign policy, the
ugliness towards Japan coming out of Beijing, the useful diplomatic affection,
perhaps it was useful for a while, seems to me that it could inadvertently lead
to miscalculations by Beijing about what happens if they take Taiwan.

但坦率地說，我們的一些外交官，包括我們前大使Bellocchi建議過，模糊性的聲明可能會
發出錯誤的訊息給中國，特別當他們在台灣的周邊或鄰近建立軍事。並且，我們看到在中
國南海的種種劍拔弩張，以及不斷膨脹的外交政策的情況發生，北京對日本的醜陋的現身
，有用處的外交策略—也許這是??一時有用而已；但在我看來，如果北京想
佔取台灣，北京可能會無意中誤判。

莫伊 (54:34)

I don’t think that Beijing questions US resolve on the Taiwan issue. We
continue to be extremely supportive and we continue to expand our unofficial
relations and that I think does a great deal to help strengthen and to allow
for a more peaceful and stable environment across the Strait.

我不認為北京有質疑美國對台灣問題的決心。我們仍然是非常支持台灣的，我們也照常擴
大我們的非官方關係，我認為，因此對和平跟穩定兩岸的環境做了很大的幫助和加強。

洛文塔爾 (加州; 民主黨) (Mr. Lowenthal) (55:05)

I have a one statement before I ask any questions that echoes the Chair’s
comments. I recently visited Taiwan and met with many government officials, and
I found it very very educational and I too believe very strongly that the State
Department and the Government should understand the importance of Taiwan being
a part of the TPP. And I think that should be a message back. So before I ask a
question, many of us think strongly believe that we should do whatever we can
to encourage that kind of development.

我在問任何問題之前，有一個呼應主席的意見要聲明：我最近訪問了台灣，並會見了許多
政府官員，得了許多非常附有教育意義的心得；我也堅信，國務院和政府應該明白台灣是
TPP的一部分的重要性。我認為這個聲明應該把它傳回去。於是，我問問題之前，我們很多
人堅信認為，我們應該盡我們所能，鼓勵那種發展。

When I was there, I was very impressed with the cross strait dialogue that was
going on between Taiwan and the PRC. I would like to know what is our State
Department’s involvement in that dialogue between Taiwan [and China]. How can
we be helpful in promoting engagement between China and Taiwan? It seems to me
that President Ma was very proud of the agreements that already had been made,
especially the trade agreement, the increased tourism that was going on, the
increased flights that were going on between. What are our involvement in that
has been? The second question is, what is your perspective on the current and
forthcoming political situation in Taiwan, including the 2016 presidential
election in which President Ma will be turned down. How will that affect the
cross-strait relationships; will that be one of the defining characteristics in
terms of that election?

當我在那裡時，我對台灣與中國之間正在進行的兩岸對話有很深刻的印象。我想知道我們
的國務院對台灣[與中國]之間的對話有什麼參與。我們怎樣才能幫助促進中國和台灣之間
的關係？在我看來，馬總統對已經達成的協議，尤其是貿易協定，以及增加的旅遊業和航
班，是非常自豪的。我們對那有什麼參與？第二個問題是，你對台灣當前和未來的政治局
勢，包括2016年的總統選舉，當馬總統將要下台，有什麼觀點？這將會如何影響兩岸關係
？那將會不會是該次選舉的特徵之一？

莫伊(57:09)

In terms of cross strait dialogue, we don’t play a direct role. They’ve had
direct talks. In fact, the dialogue that I was referring to between Wang Yu-Chi
and Zhang Zhe Zhen, was really the first time in 60 years of such a discussion
…What we have done is we have given Taiwan a great deal of confidence, through
our policies and through our direct assistance and that has enabled them to
have more engagement across the strait. We believe that more engagements,
especially if it’s at a pace that is consistent with the aspirations of the
people on Taiwan, for people of both sides of the Strait, we would very much
support that, because we believe that creates a more stable and peaceful
environment, but it does have to come at a pace that the people on Taiwan feel
comfortable with.

在兩岸對話方面，我們並沒有直接作用。他們已經自己直接會談了。事實上，我所指的王
郁琦跟張志軍之間的對話，真的是他們六十年來第一次這樣的討論......我們所做的就是
，通過我們的政策及直接的援助，我們給了台灣很大的信心，並且使他們兩岸有更多的互
動。我們相信，我們會很支持更多的互動在兩岸之間，建立一個更加穩定與和平環境，尤
其是如果它的步伐是與台灣人民的願望一致，和台灣人民感到舒服的速度進行。

In terms of the upcoming election, we don’t speculate on how that’s going to
affect cross strait relations but it’s a good time to highlight how we have
been and still are on the thriving democracy that exists in Taiwan. It is
really remarkable. Just personally…the first time I went to Taiwan was in
1978. You just cannot imagine the change that’s taking place there. Mr.
Chairman, when you go to Taiwan, it just highlights the kind of values that
they share with us. You know very well that it is this kind of energetic kind
of democracy that exists there and so I won’t speculate; we don’t get
involved in their domestic policies and how that is going to play out in terms
of the cross-strait policy in the future. But it is really a good time to
celebrate; it is a remarkable story in Asia—the democracy that exists in
Taiwan.

在即將到來的選舉，我們不會猜測將如何影響兩岸之間的關係。但這是一個很好的時間來
彰顯我們過去和現在還有，對幫助台灣的民主，使它蓬勃發展，的一舉一動。這實在是了
不起。以我個人的經驗......我第一次去台灣是在1978年。你不能想像那時正在那裡發生
的變化。主席先生，當你人去台灣，這個舉動更強調了他們與我們擁有一樣價值觀。你很
清楚，存在那裡的正是這種充滿活力的民主。所以我不要去推測；我們不涉足他們的國內
政策，也不涉足從他們兩岸條款所可能發揮出來的政策，以及對他們的國內政策所帶來的
未來的影響。但這確實是一個值得慶祝的好時間：台灣的民主故事在亞洲是一個了不起的
故事。

夏波 (俄亥; 共和黨) (Mr. Chabot) 59:30

I would like to personally thank Mr. Sherman for raising the issue of President
Chen, which he did strongly when we were on the Co Del (Congressional
Delegation) recently in Taiwan. Prior to that trip, I’ve been there about a
year ago, with another of my Democratic colleagues, the ranking member of the
Asia Pacific Committee, Eni Faleomavaega. And on that particular Co Del, Eni
and I went down to the prison where President Chen is being held. He has been
there going on five years now. You are correct, there is conviction for
corruption charges. We understand that completely. There’s a whole lot of
aspects of that which we can discuss in great detail. For example, there is an
argument that there was a judge that was more favorable to him that was
replaced by a judge who was less favorable. There are all kinds of stories that
you hear; I don’t want to go to all the details about that.

我想親自感謝謝爾曼先生，當我們國會代表團最近去台灣時，他極力地詢問有關陳總統的
問題。在這之前，我曾大約一年前，與我另外的一個民主黨同僚，亞太委員會的高級成員
，埃尼法列歐馬瓦埃加，去那裡。而在那次國會代表團訪台時，埃尼和我有到陳總統被關
押的監獄[看他]。他持續地呆在那裡已經有五年了。你是正確的，他是因貪污而被定罪的
；這一點我們完全了解，雖然另外還有一大堆的訊息，我們可以很詳細的討論。例如，有
一種說法，就是那案子的原來的法官，是有利於他(陳總統)的，因此，原來的法官被換成
一個對陳總統較少有利的法官。其實有許多各種故事，但是我不想去述說所有的細節。

But the fact is that he has been in prison now for going on five years. I’ve
read the medical reports; I’ve talked to the doctors who have examined him. I
have seen him with my own eyes. I have met with him many times when he was the
President of Taiwan. He is the second democratically elected president, served
for eight years. And I think Mr. Sherman is absolutely right when he says that
there is something wrong when one administration comes in, and the previous
administration is in prison. Something is not right. I’ve seen, again, with my
own eyes. The man has Parkinson’s; he shakes constantly; he’s got
cardiovascular problems, depression, a whole range of things. We’ve talked to
President Ma and others about it, and I believe that medical parole, as Mr.
Sherman mentioned, is a logical Chen medical parole. We are not saying that he
’d be free, but at least he can go home to his family for whatever years that
he has left.

但事實是，他已經一直在監獄有五年了。我讀過了他的醫療報告，我也和診斷過他的醫生
談過。我甚至親眼見過在監獄的他。當他是台灣的總統時，我曾與他見過許多次。他是第
二任民選總統，擔任了八年。而我認為謝爾曼先生所說的是絕對正確的：當一個政府進來
，上屆政府就被關在監獄裡的這種情況是錯誤的；這是很不對勁的事。有些事出錯了，再
次說一遍：我用我我自己的眼睛看到，他有帕金森症，他不斷地抖動，他也有心血管疾病
，抑鬱症，還有別的。我們已經跟馬總統和其他人說過了。我相信，如謝爾曼先生所提到
的，保外就醫是一個合乎邏輯的辦法。我們並不是說，他這樣子就可以自由，但至少在他
所剩下的有生之年，他可以回家。

莫伊(1:59:59)

As I noted earlier, we have the confidence in the fairness and the impartiality
and transparency in Taiwan’s judicial system. And we have made clear to Taiwan
our expectation that procedures governing the terms of Chen Shui-Bian’s
imprisonment and access to health care will be transparent, fair, and impartial
, and so if there are occasions, and this is just a general statement from the
US Government, when there are cases, when there are such health concerns, we
would…make note of that to, in this case, the Taiwan Authorities, but other
governments as well, when there may be some humanitarian considerations that
could be made. But certainly, we believe that the original case was tried [
interrupted]

正如我前面提到的，我們對台灣的司法制度的公平、公正、和透明度有信心。我們已明確
向台灣表示我們期望監禁陳水扁的程序，和使他獲得衛生保健的條件必須是透明、公平、
和公正的。所以如果有什麼情況—這只是美國政府的一般性的發言—若有什麼情況，向這
樣的健康問題，我們將...記下。在此情況下，台灣當局，或其他國家的政府，當有可能是
可以作出一些人道主義的考慮。但可以肯定的，就是我們認為原來的審判[被對方打斷]

夏波

I am not talking about the original case; I am talking about NOW. Still that
was an excellent answer. But my question is, does the Administration have a
position on medical parole? Well, is there a position? You said he ought to be
treated humanely in prison; we are saying that he shouldn’t be in prison at
this point in time. He has been in prison; he is there now. We are saying that
medical parole should be granted…Do you have a position on that? Should he be
granted? If you don’t have one, that’s okay. But I just would like to know.

我不是在談論原案。我說的是現在；雖然你剛剛給了一個很好的答案。但我的問題是，白
宮政府是否有保外就醫的的立場？有嗎？你說他應該在監獄裡受到人道待遇；但是我們的
意思是，他現在不應該再被關在監獄裡了。他已經有被關在監獄裡了，他現在還在那裡。
我們是說，保外就醫應授予給他。…你對這有什麼立場？他應該被授予[保外就醫]嗎？如
果你沒有立場的話，那也沒關係。但我只是想知道。

莫伊 (1:03:30)

I don’t think we take the position [interrupted]

我不認為我們採取的立場[被對方打斷]

夏波

Okay. All right. Thank you. That was my question. I will ask you another
position if you have this. The President, the Vice President, the Defense
Minister and the Foreign Minister [of Taiwan] can’t come to Washington, D.C.
We want to meet with them, we have to go to San Francisco, or Baltimore, or [
somewhere]; they are not allowed to come to the capital of the United States,
which I think is a travesty for a close ally of the US. We have introduced
legislatures innumerable times to dump that policy, which I think is unfair to
Taiwan. Does the Administration have a position on that?

好吧。好的。謝謝。那就是我所要問的問題。如果你有的話，我要問你另一個立場。台灣
的總統，副總統，國防部長和外交部長都不能到華盛頓特區。我們若希望與他們見面，我
們都要去舊金山，或巴爾的摩，或[別的地方]。我認為，當為美國的親蜜盟友，他們未獲
准來美國的首都，是很滑稽的事。我們提出了無數次的提議來除掉這個我認為對台灣不公
平的政策。。政府對這的立場是什麼？

莫伊(1:04:25)

We continue to have our One-China Policy that is set forth in the Three Joint
Communiques…[interrupted]

載於三個聯合公報，我們持續有一中政策...[被對方打斷]

夏波

I am aware of that. Do you have a position on whether they should come here?

我知道這一點。你對他們是否應該來這裡的立場是什麼？

莫伊

In terms of the travel of Taiwan Authorities that is consistent with those
policies—our One-China Policy … [interrupted]

在台灣當局的行程是與我們的一中政策是一致的...[被對方打斷]

夏波

So you believe we should continue the President, the Vice-President, the
Foreign Minister—so they should not be able to come to Washington, D.C.?

所以，你認為我們應該繼續讓台灣的總統，副總統，外交部長，不能來到華盛頓特區？

莫伊

I think our policy has been very consistent over a number of administrations [
interrupted by “I am asking for an answer of yes or no”] and I believe that
we will continue.

我認為，過了那麼多的當局，我們的政策一直都很一致。[被夏波打斷: “我要求的是一個
答案：有或沒有？”]
我相信，我們將繼續…[被打斷]。

夏波

So you are saying that they are not to be allowed to come here; continue with
that policy. We are saying that we should change that policy. You say stick
with it.

所以，你是說他們是不被允許來到這裡，繼續該政策。我們則說，我們應該改變這一政策
。你說堅持下去。

莫伊

I say that our policy has been consistent and I believe we will be consistent
in the future.

我說，我們的政策是一貫的，而我相信我們將來也是會繼續下去。

康諾利 (維吉尼亞州; 民主黨) (Mr. Connolly) (1:06:12)

Briefly, what, in your opinion, or the Administration’s opinion, does the TRA
commit United States to do with respect to the military relationships with
Taiwan?

簡單地告訴我，在你看來，或是以政府的意見，有關與台灣的軍事關係，台灣關係法的宗
旨要美國做的究竟是什麼？

莫伊

As noted earlier, we are obligated to make available to Taiwan defense articles
and defense services that are necessary to enable Taiwan to maintain a
sufficient self-defense capability. It is an obligation that we don’t shirk
these obligations. The needs of Taiwan are under constant review.

正如前面提到的，我們有責任提供給台灣需要的國防物品和防禦服務，使台灣能維持足夠
的自衛能力。這是我們不可推卸的責任，一種義務。台灣的需求是經常經過檢討的。

康諾利

Good. I would agree with you. Would you also agree that something Beijing doesn
’t understand is that big stick of Teddy Roosevelt. We can talk softly, but
they got to also know that we also carry a big stick, and that we mean it, that
we keep our commitments, and that whatever happens, ultimately, in the Taiwan
Strait will happen peacefully. It is not going to happen by military force, and
the US is prepared to make sure that it doesn’t happen by military force. You
think, especially in light of Chinese behavior, in the [Senkaku?] Islands
throughout the Pacific Rim that that message is maybe more important than ever
from the US with respect to Taiwan?

好。我會同意你的。你是否也同意，北京所不明白的是泰迪·羅斯福總統的巨棒外交？我
們可以輕聲交談，但他們也得知道，我們持著一根巨棒；也就是說，我們說話算話，我們
會保持我們的承諾。無論最終台海發生什麼事，都會和平地發生，不會介於武力，而美國
也準備以確保它不會介於武力發生。你想，在整個環太平洋地區，尤其遇到中國對付台灣
有關尖閣群島件的行為，從美國發出的這個巨棒外交的訊息也許比以往任何時候都更加重
要了？

莫伊 (1:07:55)

As I noted earlier, I don’t think that the PRC doubts our resolve, our
continued positive presence in the East Asia Pacific region [interrupted by “
Really? With respect to Taiwan?”] Absolutely.

正如我前面提到的，我不認為中國會懷疑我們的決心，我們在東亞太平洋地區繼續存在正[
被對方打斷: “真的？有關台灣的決心呢?”] 當然可以。

康諾利 (1:08:08)

United States, in 2001, tentatively agreed to sell diesel submarines to Taiwan.
Thirteen years later, where are we in the submarine sale?

美國在2001年，初步同意出售柴油潛水艇給台灣。十三年後的今天，這個買賣有什麼進展
？

莫伊 (1:08:18)

As you know, we continue to review the defense needs and we make decisions that
are appropriate [interrupted]

如你所知，我們繼續檢討台灣的國防需要，我們做出適當的決定[被對方打斷]

康諾利

Have we sold a single one of those diesel submarines to Taiwan13 years later?

我們13年後可有售出一艘柴油潛水艇給台灣？

莫伊

I am not aware of that, sir.

我不知道。

康諾利

Did, by any chance, Beijing object to that sale?

北京可有反對這個銷售？

莫伊

We don’t discuss arms sales of defense…

我們不討論國防軍售...

康諾利

Did they express themselves either publicly or through private channels that
you are aware of?

北京到底有沒有？用公開表達或透過私人管道的方式？

莫伊

I am not aware of…

我不知道...

康諾利

So why the hang up? Why not sell the diesels then?

那麼，為什麼沒有賣？

莫伊

Again, we make decisions not with the PRC in mind. We make those decisions
based on what we feel are our needs.

再次的，我們做我們的決定，心中不記掛著中國。我們根據我們的感覺需要什麼，而作我
們的這些決定。

康諾利

Oh. So the decision tentatively to sell submarines to Taiwan in 2001 is still
under consideration as to whether it meets your definition of our appropriate
defense for Taiwan.

喔。所以，在2001年出售潛艇給台灣的初步決定，其實是仍在考慮，這是否符合你對可以
適合防禦台灣的定義之中。

莫伊

There are a range of systems, there are a range of different packages that we
constantly…[interrupted]

有一系列的系統中，有一系列不同的組合，我們不斷的...[被打斷]

康諾利

What about F16s? The Congress has repeatedly said the sale of F16s makes sense
to us. Is that all under review for whether it is appropriate part for the
defense of Taiwan?

那F16怎麼樣？國會已多次表示，出售F16是有意義的。這是否也還在檢討中，看這是否適
宜台灣的防衛的一部分？

莫伊

We’ve made the determination that the F16 retrofit…was the most appropriate
type of weapon systems to sell to Taiwan and we continue to believe that that
is the case.

我們已經決定改造的F16...是賣給台灣最合適的武器系統。我們也繼續認為這個決定是對
的。

康諾利

What about the military exercises? Any considerations to include Taiwan, for
example, in RIMPAC (Rim of the Pacific Exercise)?

那麼軍事演習呢？可有任何考慮，例如環太平洋演習包括台灣？

莫伊 (1:10:08)

We always consider, and this is our policy worldwide, we are always considering
different participants. I am not aware of such consideration, but I think my
colleagues in the Defense Department can better address that.

我們的世界性的政策始終都有一直在考慮不同的參與者。我不知道有或無這樣的考慮，但
我認為我在國防部的同事可以更好回答這個問題。

康諾利

We don’t want to ever be provocative, but we need to stand by our alliances.
We want a good, productive relationship, it seems to me, with the PRC, but I
also know from history, that Beijing respects strength, peace through strength,
and our commitment to Taiwan is an extraordinary test case, and it seems to me
that we have to follow through on our commitments with respect to Taiwan.
Beijing doesn’t have to like it, but it will have to respect it.

我們永遠都不希望去挑釁，但我們需要跟我們的聯盟站在一起。我們希望能和中國有一個
良好的，富有成效的關係。但是我也知道，從歷史上，北京尊重由力量強大而得的和平。
我們對台灣的承諾是一個非凡的測試用例。在我看來，我們要貫徹我們對台灣的承諾。北
京不一定要喜歡它，但他們必須尊重它。

韋伯 (德州; 共和黨) (Mr. Weber) 1:11:10

You said earlier that when you make decisions, that y’all don’t consider
Beijing; you just reaffirmed that with my colleague Mr. Connolly. I think Chris
Smith raised the issue of the One-China Policy. Does it not bother you that
that exists? That there are statements that people have made--high level
officials--have made that agree on the One-China Policy? Does the
Administration not view that as a problem?

你剛才說，當你做決定時，你們都不去考慮到北京。你也剛剛向我的同事康納利先生重申
了這點。我認為克里斯·史密斯提出了一個中國政策的問題。這個政策的存在不困擾你嗎
？當別的高級官員陳述這個政策時，也不困擾你嗎？難道政府不覺得這是一個問題嗎？

莫伊 (1:12:11)

Our One-China Policy is one that existed for several decades now…several
administrations…

我們的一個中國政策已經存在了幾十年了......經過了幾個當局...

韋伯

I’ll take that as a no. So you haven’t sold submarines yet; you don’t take
Beijing into account. People around the world watch us. Words and actions have
consequences. Would you agree that y’all would be okay with a One-Russia
Policy when it comes to Crimea in the Ukraine? Is that akin to the same kind of
ideology?

我把答案當作是“不”。所以，你還沒有賣潛艇、你不考慮北京[的意見]。世界各地的人
們都會看我們。我們的言語和行動都會產生後果。當談到在烏克蘭的克里米亞時，你會同
意一個俄羅斯政策？這是否一種類似的意識形態？

莫伊

I can’t speak to those issues. But again, we are obligate d to provide those
defense materials and services to Taiwan. We have been through several
administrations, I think, vigilant in terms of providing them…

我不能對這些問題發言。但我再說一次，我們有義務來提供這些國防物資和服務給台灣。
我們已經經過幾個當局，都機警的提供…

韋伯

But in view of recent events, wouldn’t you agree that the Administration ought
to be thinking about revamping its policy, that perhaps we would want to get in
gear…[it has been] 13 years [since the talk about the sale of submarines]…has
the world changed in 13 years?

但鑑於最近發生的事件，你難道不同意，政府當局應考慮改造政策的問題？我們是不是應
該考慮上軌道了…已經十三年了…這十三年來世界變了嗎？

莫伊

In what sense, sir? 在哪一方面，先生？

韋伯

How about in your view of the imminent danger of perhaps mainland China…trying
to take back over Taiwan. We’ve said that they are our close friend and ally.
The fact that their officials cannot come to Washington D.C. is a problem.
Events around the world should indicate that now more than ever we need a
stronger relationship with Taiwan. Does the Administration understand the
seriousness? Especially under the recent event of Russia, Ukraine, Crimea…
Things aren’t getting any better, so is there a possibility y’all might step
up the program to sell those defense weapons to Taiwan? Maybe before the next
13 years?

你對中國大陸迫在眉睫試圖奪回台灣的觀點如何？我們已經說過，他們是我們親密的朋友
和盟友。他們的官員不能到華盛頓特區其實是一個問題。世界各地的事件應該指出，現在
比以往更需要與台灣有更密切的關係。當局是否明白此問題的嚴重性？尤其是在俄羅斯、
烏克蘭、和克里米亞最近發生的事件......事情並不會轉好，所以有可能你們會加緊計劃
出售這些防衛武器給台灣嗎？或許在接下來的十三年以前？

莫伊 (1:14:18)

As I noted, they are under constant review. I take your point about the world
changing to adjust to those changes. Remarkably, as I noted earlier, there is
more dialogue between Taipei and Beijing than there ever has been before.

正如我指出的，他們是不斷的在檢討。我同意你所說的，有關你對世界需要演變好來適應
那些變化。值得注意的是，正如我前面提到的，台北與北京之間有比以往任何時候都有更
多的對話。

韋伯

So there is going to be some exercises over Hawaii. Beijing was invited; Taiwan
was not. Why?

那麼，夏威夷有一個軍事演習。北京有被邀請，台灣沒有。為什麼？

莫伊

I think that our policy, in terms of strengthening military-military relations
with Beijing, are fairly apparent. I can defer to my colleagues in the Defense
Department to comment on the status of those relations. But as part of our
rebalance, our consideration of making of strengthening the stability and peace
in East Asia, I think this is a good idea.

我認為我們的政策，以加強我們與北京的軍事對軍事關係而言，是相當明顯的。我可以請
我在國防部的同事針對這關係的現狀作出評論。不過，從我們的重新平衡亞洲這部分的角
度來看，我們的考慮，制定在東亞加強那地區的穩定與和平來說，我認為這是一個好主意
。

韋伯

Okay, obviously, because they weren’t invited. Does this not strike you as odd
that China isn’t as concerned about what we are doing as it seems, words and
actions have consequences. Witness Russia, the recent invasion of Crimea of
Ukraine, so to speak. Does it not strike you as odd that we seem a lot more
worried about Beijing than they are of us? Do y’all take that into account?

好吧，很明顯的，因為他們沒有被邀請。難道你不覺得奇怪，中國好像並不擔心我們在做
什麼，我們的“言行有後果”，不像我們那麼擔心他們。看看俄羅斯，最近入侵烏克蘭的
克里米亞。這豈不會讓你覺得奇怪，我們似乎對北京擔心多得比他們擔心我們的多？你們
可曾考慮到這一點？

莫伊 (1:16:07)

I don’t think that we balance our concerns …we don’t think about it…[
interrupted by “well, that’s obvious”.] But, what I can tell you is that I
think it’s a very smart thing to expand our relations with all countries in
the East Asia and I don’t think that any of this comes at the expense of
Taiwan, and I think that our relationships with Taiwan have been extremely
strong; we will continue to strengthen those relations.

我不認為我們有衡量我們的關注......我們不去想那些...[被打斷：“好，這是明顯的”
。]但是，我可以告訴你的是，我認為一個非常聰明的事，就是擴大我們與所有在東亞的國
家的關係，我不認為這會使台灣付出任何代價。並且，我認為我們與台灣的關係是一直非
常強勁的，我們將繼續加強此關係。

佩里 (賓夕法尼亞; 共和黨) (Mr. Perry) (1:16:56)

I feel like I can’t get a whole lot of straight answers, so I’d like to go to
some kind of yes and no format if I could because it seems to be a lot of time
to just discussing about the fact that the Administration is interested in
talking about or is considering or whatever. Regarding the PLA force build up.
The US analysts assessed that the primary driver of PLA’s force build up is
preparation for conflict over Taiwan status, including contingencies or
possible US intervention. So that’s US analysts. The question is, is this
still the assessment of the Executive Branch? Briefly.

我覺得我不能得到一大堆直接的答案，所以，如果可以的話，我想用是與否式的問題，因
為光只是討論有關當局對什麼有興趣或正在考慮或什麼的，就花掉大量的時間。關於解放
軍建立起他們的力量：美國分析家評估，解放軍建立部隊的主要驅動因素是要預備萬一有
台海衝突狀況，包括突發事件或美國干預的可能。所以這是美國分析家說的。現在的問題
是，這可仍然是行政部門的評估？請說重點。

莫伊 (1:17:50)

I am not a spokesperson for our colleagues in the Defense.

我不是在國防部的同事的代言人。

佩里

But I am talking about the Executive Branch. Is this their assessment? Just a
yes or no or I don’t know.

但我說的是行政部門。這是他們的評估嗎？一個是、否、或我不知道就好。

莫伊

Of course we will stand by the assessments that have been made.

我們當然支持已經作出的評估。

佩里

So, the answer is essentially “yes”?

所以，答案基本上“是”？

莫伊

We stand by the reports that we do.

我們支持我們所做的報告。

佩里

Do you know if Taiwan shares the same assessment?

你知道如果台灣也同有所感？

莫伊

Taiwan has taken many precautions in its defense posture—it’s best to ask
them that question, but, certainly, there have been discussions that goes on
about this sort of thing. I would imagine that [interrupted]

台灣已經採取了許多預防措施，所以你最好問他們這個問題。但是，可以肯定的是，對這
一點已經有討論過的了。我想…[被對方打斷]

佩里

You don’t really know. 你也不知道。

莫伊

I can’t speak for Taiwan. 我不能為台灣說話。

佩里

I understand. But in the discussions that the Administration’s had, if that’s
how they are posturing their forces and their strategy based on their
assessment. You don’t know.

我明白了。但是，政府所有的討論中，他們是否根據他們的評估，來定位他們的力量和他
們的戰略討論？你不知道？

莫伊

Is your question whether Taiwan believes it or whether… [interrupted]

你的問題是台灣是否相信它還是...[被對方打斷]

佩里

Yes. Do they share the US’s assessment, if that’s the reason for the build up
.

是。他們可也認同美國的評估，如果這是[解放軍]在加強的原因。

莫伊

I think you would have to ask the Administration.

我想你要問白宮當局。

佩里

Regarding Taiwan’s membership in the TPP. The Administration’s position: for
or against? It’s important for us to know.

關於台灣加入TPP的問題。政府的立場：支持或反對？我們知不知道是很重要的。

莫伊

We welcome their interest. I don’t think the conversations have gone so far as
to be pro or con—we are a long way away from that. But we welcome their
interest.

我們歡迎他們的興趣。我不認為對話已經深得可以決定是贊成或反對—我們還有很長的路
要走。但我們歡迎他們對TPP的興趣。

佩里

I am sure that we do. But you are saying that the Administration hasn’t
decided yet. You are happy for the interest, but you don’t know.

我相信我們會歡迎他們的興趣。但你是說，政府還沒有決定。你喜歡他們的興趣，但是你
不知道[到底是支持或反對]。

莫伊

The issue hasn’t come up to that point yet.

這個問題還沒有拿出來的地步。

佩里

The issue hasn’t been brought up or it isn’t to a point where you can decide
yes or no?

這個問題還沒有被提出來，或者是還沒有到那個你可以決定是或否的地步？

莫伊

It hasn’t come up to the point. We know that Taiwan has expressed some
interest, and we are welcoming that interest. But we are long way away from
discussing that. We have other discussions that we are having on Taiwan’s
economic policies and we are certainly engaged in those, and we are warming our
economic and trade relations with Taiwan.

還沒有到那個地步。我們知道台灣已表示了一些興趣，而我們歡迎那個興趣。但是離那個
討論還很遠。我們有我們正在和台灣討論的經濟政策，我們肯定的在進行這些，而且我們
正在使我們與台灣的經貿關係更加友善。

佩里

Regarding the PRC’s air defense identification zone (ADIZ). What have been
concerns in Taiwan’s response to the PRC’s ADIZ announced in November of 2013
?

關於中國的防空識別區（ADIZ）。 2013年十一月，當中國公佈了這個防空識別區時，有什
麼顧慮到台灣的反應嗎？

莫伊 (1:20:52)

What do you mean by concern? 你是說什麼顧慮？

佩里

The Administration’s concern. Do you have any or are you in agreement?

政府的顧慮。你有什麼顧慮，或者你有同意？

莫伊

I think what’s important here is that President Ma has gone on record as
expressing concern. What he has said in public and what is encouraging is that
he wants a peaceful, stable environment in the region that if there are
disagreements, they should be resolved through dialogue.

我認為這裡最重要的是馬總統已經有記錄表示顧慮。他向公眾所說的，令人鼓舞的，是他
想要在該地區有一個和平，穩定的環境，如果有異議，應通過對話解決。

佩里

Do you know what the response would be if there were an air force or navy
intercept in the ADIZ? If the PLA had intercepted a Taiwanese aircraft or
marine vessels in that area, and there were some incursion, what would some of
our responses be?

你知道如果在防空識別區，有空軍或海軍攔截的話，會有什麼樣的反應嗎？如果解放軍在
該地區截獲台灣飛機或船隻的侵襲，那我們的反應會是什麼？

莫伊

I am not going to get into the speculation or hypothetical situations, but we
have gone on record in response to the announcement of this ADIZ as not
accepting it. So, again, I don’t want to speculate on any kind of possible [
interrupted]

我不打算推測或假設情況，不過，我們在防空識別區公佈時，我們就有記錄的聲明我們不
接受它。所以，再一次，我不想揣測任何一種可能的[被對方打斷]

閉幕詞Closing Statement: 羅伊斯

As you can see there is tremendous bipartisan support for Taiwan and it is my
sincere hope that the Administration would take a more proactive stance on
Taiwan, including working with Taiwan so that it can join the TPP. The Asia
Pacific region is going to witness a significant growth in economics and
prosperity in the next 10 years, and positioning the US, we are, after all, all
on the Pacific Rim, with this opportunity is a task that we take very seriously
on this committee. And as the Chairman of this committee, I’ve made the Asia-
Pacific region a top priority, so I look forward to work closely with the
Administration on this and other issues.

正如你可以看到，我們兩黨都為台灣巨大的支持。我真誠地希望，當局能以更積極的態度
站在台灣的立場，包括與台灣合作，以便它可以加入TPP。在未來十年，亞太地區將要見證
顯著的增長，以及經濟的繁榮。既然美國之定位也在環太平洋地區內，所以，這個委員會
會非常認真地把握這樣的機會，[使美國也有顯著的增長，以及經濟的繁榮]。作為這個委
員會的主席，我指定亞太地區為這個委員會的首要任務。我們對待一項任務。所以我期待
著，就這個問題和其他問題，與白宮政府密切合作。

--
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※ 文章網址: http://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Gossiping/M.1396041246.A.54D.html
※ 編輯: dacapo          來自: 218.161.59.139       (03/29 05:15)
推 Uncontinue:推翻譯   但我沒精神看了 想睡                         03/29 05:15
QQ 發的時機不太好 我自己也沒精神看惹
推 Honor1984:大推                                                  03/29 05:16
→ CORSA:其實台灣關係法只是美國的國內法 要廢隨時都可以廢           03/29 05:16
→ CORSA:不知道那些吱吱為何要視其為聖經?!當時簽定的目的都不存在了  03/29 05:17
推 yeaaah:看了10頁後赫然發現只到14%                                03/29 05:18
加油! 有一半是英文可以無視
推 greedypeople:我看到兩邊開始交鋒時注意到頁數....先推             03/29 05:21
推 screwer5566:推推推                                              03/29 05:23
推 Carrarese:有神人!!!!!!                                          03/29 05:24
→ bluebrown:不在美國國內法難道是要像中國一樣規定在憲法裡嗎？      03/29 05:36
推 cadie:推翻譯 看完了...                                          03/29 05:37
推 jacking:有看有推 精彩!                                          03/29 05:40
推 cadie:台灣的地理位置真的太重要了!否則還不能讓中美兩國互相角力   03/29 05:40
推 jimmy12332:好長                                                 03/29 05:46
→ CORSA:台灣地理位置是很重要但還沒有重要到美國沒台就無法相互角力  03/29 05:50
推 butterboy:感謝翻譯                                              03/29 05:52
→ CORSA:當時美國會訂台灣關係法是怕台灣在與美斷交後會與蘇聯建交    03/29 05:52
→ CORSA:所以透過黨政最高層級人士先壓下然後在逼簽這所謂的關係法    03/29 05:53
推 iii326:看完推                                                   03/29 05:55
推 gusin:推                                                        03/29 06:14
推 Ahriman13:看完感謝推~看來共和黨對台灣加入TPP幫忙但白宮在打太極  03/29 06:26
→ dacapo:[新聞] 美副助卿：美歡迎台加入TPP 希望是真的              03/29 06:39
推 han72:馬英九已經很明顯不考慮中國以外的選項了                    03/29 06:43
→ sca133:馬沒有不考慮阿 只是主子還沒說可以加入不能決定而已        03/29 07:24
※ 編輯: dacapo          來自: 218.161.59.139       (03/29 07:57)
推 destinysword:推                                                 03/29 08:40
推 utaka:感謝分享及辛苦了!                                         03/29 08:53
推 visualsense:推                                                  03/29 09:28
推 FRX:                                                            03/29 11:02
推 mayling321:當局只想打太極 嘴上說一套做的是另一套                03/29 12:50
→ mayling321:支持的國會議員又非決策者 美國說不支持"武力"統一      03/29 12:51
→ mayling321:卻沒說不支持"非武力"統一  看看服貿不就是非武力統一?  03/29 12:51
推 givar:推                                                        03/29 14:08